John 37 years

Ted S

Welcome to Chilliwack AA. I’m your host Ted S, sober since October 17th, 1996, one day at a time. I’m glad you can join us for our premier podcast on Chilliwack AA. Before I introduce our fabulous guest today, let me tell you a bit about the podcast. Chilliwack AA explores the lives of people who have recovered from alcohol through Alcoholics Anonymous.

In each of my interviews, my guests will share their experience, strength, and hope with us through a lively discussion of what it was like, what happened and what it’s like now. We will be talking about their struggles, successes, and how they remain sober.

This podcast strictly adheres to AA’s Twelve Traditions and all general service board guidelines for safeguarding anonymity.

No advertising is allowed, and no one receives financial gain from the show. Chilliwack AA and my guests do not speak for or represent AA at large. This podcast is simply my way of giving back to AA what was freely given to me.

 And now let me introduce you, my guests for today’s show.

So, my first guests for our first podcast on Chilliwack AA, is my sponsor. His name is John G. I have known John now, am I correct john about 15 years or so or something like that John, give or take? One day he caught me, I was weak, and he asked me to be his sponsor.

I was in the Alano Club, and I wanted to eat, and he asked me to be a sponsor. And well, guess what happened? I said, yes. And I needed a sponsor also. So, I think I worked out pretty good, John.

John G

 It did, it did but I, you know, if you look back on those days, it was, um, a different time for me, because I was well into my sobriety at that point.

Ted S

Yeah. You, you had been sober 25 years, I think, and you have 37 years now.

John G

 A matter of fact on March the 3rd, it was 37 and a half years.

And, uh, uh, there are times when I find it difficult to even comprehend that I was sober for that long, uh, and you know, one day at a time, if you look back at the beginning and, uh, uh, that first week I know, took at least a year. Each day, the clock dragged so slowly.

Ted S

So how did he get through to meetings in that first week? Did you want to run at times?

John G

I went to my first meeting. Um, I phoned mmm my dry date is the 3^rd and I phoned AA on Wednesday, and I said, are there any meetings in Ajax, Ontario? I know they said, hold on a minute, I never forget that. He said, hold on a minute, he came back and about two minutes later, you’re holding forever.

And he said, how many meetings would you like to go to?

Ted S

That must have scared you huh.

John G

And how many drunks can there be? Ajax. Ajax was a small town in those days outside of Toronto. And, and, uh, so I ended up going to the Ajax Friday night group, at the Catholic church there in the corner of, uh, one of the main thoroughfares and, uh, it started at 8.30

Ted S

What time did you get there?

John G

 And I got there at 8.30 and one second, because I got dressed up, tie, everything. I was just, I wasn’t going to show these, these hobos that, uh, you know, I’m, I’m one of them, and, and, and, and it was like I opened the door and Audrey was her name. She was sitting in the first, second chair, and she just waved to me, and she pointed to the chair. And, uh, at that moment I knew I was in, I was in the right spot and, and there was only nine people there, including me. And Cheryl was chairing. Roberta was, was the, was the secretary. And, uh, uh, Cheryl was dressed in a, and I never forgot that in a, in a gray suit.

Wow. And, and I thought where all the drunks?  You know, they all look human and they’re laughing and, and it was like, okay, listening to them, they talked my language. Wow. And it was just, it was hard to imagine that that would be my home for about, about six years I guess before I moved out of Toronto, but it was, it was the most comfortable place I was, could get to.

And that was the only meeting I went to for about three years. I didn’t go to do any others, except when we, we had in lake shore east, I guess we were in at that time, in Toronto area, uh, we had. Uh, we would visit other groups and we would put on the meeting for them at their group. And, uh, that was sort of my initiation into going to other groups because I thought naively and you’re 42 years old or 41 years old when you get there and you think, hey, I, you know, I know all this stuff.

And it, it never occurred to me that I was allowed to go to other meetings that I, that I, you know, if this was my home group, this is where you stayed in the only place you went. But we had tremendous, um, comradery in that group. Yeah. And, uh, we have parties together, uh, potluck center, everything else,

Ted S

And you seem to speak fondly of everybody like you seem to know them as we speak like 37 years later, you know, you knew what they were wearing.

John G

 Like it was yesterday.

Ted S

Like why is that?

John G

And because they made a great impression on me and, and, and I don’t know much whether I made a great impression on them, but it was, it was. It was wonderful because, uh, Dick G uh, who was still in the program, is still alive, Audrey unfortunately died a couple of years back, but, uh, Roberta who was secretary, she would not make it. And she died about three years later, uh, of, uh, alcoholism and, and the others that were there. Uh, you know, there’s such a small group that we, we kind of hung together and, uh, uh, one of the gals, uh, I’m just trying to think of her name now. Here, we’re sitting here, and I can’t, but it, it was, uh, I would call her Ma all the time because she was, she was older than me, you know, and like grandma type of thing. But these were the people that I would travel with going to these other meetings and putting on meetings for them. And, and I think we had more fun, more pure fun, traveling back and forth to the meetings than we did at the actual meetings in those days.

Ted S

So how many meetings would there have been in Ajax?

John G

Uh, well in Ajax was probably about six meetings during the week, but in the whole, uh, lake shore, east area we had, which we then extended into Oshawa would be, uh, over time, uh, there, there came other meetings. We, we ended up leaving that group and starting a Whitby serenity group.

Ted S

Why did you leave?

Uh, our group was small and we, we had, as I say that great comradery, uh, fellowship, total fellowship. And as it grew, it grew to, uh, you know, a meeting of eight grew to 108 who are more see, it was, it was, it was hard to imagine that this little group, when you look up at the meeting list, and I still have a bunch of them.

The first one has eight or nine names on it. And then there it’s on two pages after all. You know what I mean? It’s just, it’s hard to comprehend why we don’t know why, you know, we’re based on attraction. I guess that we, we were, we were doing something that other groups weren’t doing, I guess. And yet all our meetings at those time were speaker meetings, so it’s not like today where I had no comprehension about sharing.

None, other than here I am in a group of eight people. And, you know, you instantly become the GSR. You instantly become a chairperson. You instantly become all, a secretary. And, and it was, it was probably the greatest thing for me. Because I was involved right up to my eyeballs.

Ted S

How long ago, how long did it take for them to ask you to share?

John G

Um, when it got about a month, about a month, when it grew to a little over a hundred people, then there you are, then you were share you were chairing and sharing. And so it was, it was interesting at my first effort of sharing or, sorry, speaking. I was in one of the Whitby groups. I had written my speech down and I had it all figured out because this is how you deliver a speech.

And it was just terrible. And, and it, I, I got, I got home, and I thought, what did I do wrong? And next week I went to the meeting and some of the people from that Whitney group were at our meeting and they said, John, you know, next time. Don’t bring any notes, just speak from the heart. That was, that was one, one of the great things that I remember.

And at the one of those meetings, we had one of our senior guys who spoke, and I was chairing, and he talked about honesty and, and I’ve never forgotten that he said, you know, you can be and do anything. except you got to be honest with yourself. And that, that was again, another eye-opener for me.

Ted S

 It’s probably one of the most important things you learned early on.

 Well, it was, and, and, and you see I was quite happy being sober. I was incredibly happy being sober and I had no idea, uh, you know, these steps and everything. We read them every meeting on the traditions, we read them every meeting, and people talked about them and everything else. And it was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That’s for you, you know? Yeah. And here I was about four years later, I was chairing in front of my group, and I broke down and I said, uh, I don’t know what, it’s just not working. And Audrey who I love dearly. She came up to me at the end of the meeting and said, John, we’ve been waiting for you. And I told her many times,

Ted S

Did it overwhelm you?

John G

I could have killed her that night, but it, it was, it didn’t overwhelm me. It, it, it finally brought me down again, you know, to a bottom and accept the fact that the steps were for John and not for, just for everybody else. And, and when you, when you, when you’re sort of figured that, well, it was, it was difficult in the sense that, where do I start?

Ted S

Not much different than what happens today in our duties. Correct. ? Well, we’re, you know, where people come in or they’re scared. They’re not sure what to say or where they sit there and they want to run . They sit there and they go on like, what am I doing here? And they don’t understand, you know, why we’re all laughing and smiling.

John G

I love the newcomer today because, uh, uh, at my group, at the New Beginners group in Chilliwack here, and it’s, it’s a joy to see them come in.  And yet it’s sad to see how they look. And, and I remember every bit of the anger and the fear and the terrible tension when they come in and realize when, like I did that, if all they really wanted was somebody to talk to

And so, I make a point of, of, uh, you know, we we’d give them a meeting list with phone numbers, but I make a point of seeing them before they leave the meeting.

Ted S

Yeah. That’s something I’ve noticed you over the years

 John G

And just talk to them and, let them know that they are not alone either. And that was one of the key things that I found in my first couple of meetings was hope was there. And, and for, for me, and not for everybody else, but for me hope was there, and it was like, wow,

Ted S

It’s probably the best thing we, we get a, you know, when we first get there, you know, we’re lost.

John G

It’s the PA’s it’s it’s when you, when I left that meeting, I was high as a kite.  it was so such a different high. It was like, wow, what is this? You know,

Ted S

 Let’s go back to those early days. Again, like you talked about where you only had about seven, eight members and so on.  How was it run? How was it run compared to what it’s like today? Like the smoking and ashtrays and all that

John G

In the old days. I mean, you, when we, when we were first in the Catholic church, and we ended up having to go to another church because the church decided that they wanted to change. So, we, you know, everybody smoked and I, I had quit smoking before I quit drinking, which I still find incredible.

Ted S

 So, was that early, early on when it was only eight, 10 people or was that when you had 100 people?

John G

 No. When we, even, when we had a hundred people, it was still smoking.  We were in a, in a large gymnasium in that Catholic church. So, you didn’t notice it as much until we went to the other church, and it was a church basement.

It was the blue room smoking. I mean, it was like, just imagine it was like, it almost. We would ask You guys’ mind smoking outside because it’s, you can’t see down here, you know what I mean? Is this that blue and, and that was just about the time they started the no smoking?

So it was, it was, it was just starting and, and, um, uh, but at the beginning, I mean, your duties, where to make coffee , put out the ashtrays, you know, clean the ashtrays  at the end of the meeting, stack them and, and, you know, things that you don’t even see now, you know, for sure, uh, coffee cups and everything else, uh, uh, were different as well.

And, and it was, it was an incredible time I think for me, because it, it, it was. I found myself useful, uh, literally, uh, because of the program. And, and then I had a use in my life now and, and it was to stay sober. And when I stayed sober, good things happened.

Ted S

You know, I remember my early days when they gave me the key to the Yarrow group how I felt it was like incredible, I had some responsibility and it felt like I belonged.

John G

And, and, and there was trust there trusted me to, to open. They trusted me to close and, and, and, and I got to meet the, you know, the, the father at the church and everything else. And it was. Wow. Yes, it was, it was. You know, things I would never have done before. And now you, you sort walk with your head up and, and I, I kind of joke about it, you know, with the newcomers, you know, when I first came in, I could look everybody in their shoes. And just see the newcomers today. It’s the same thing. Their head is down, and there wondering what in the name of God they’re doing here. And I was to.

Ted S

How hard was it for a, in those days to, for example, to, to rent the church?  Like you mentioned, meeting the clergy of the church.? Was there a pushback in those days or was it easy as it is today?

John G

I think in, in some respects, the churches were more receptive than they are today. I think, um, uh, the smoking really was not an issue in those days because everybody smoked everywhere. So, smoking in, in the church grounds or in the church property was not an issue. But I, I, I find that, uh, I think over the years, the, the, the feeling in churches in general is not quite as acceptance law wise as, as they were then.

Ted S

Why do you think that?

John G

I think, well, I think in the sense of, of, um, the combination of the street drugs. And, and the combination of alcoholics who are combined drug and alcohol problems, um, that we would be, we just see a little resistance, I think, on the part of the churches to, uh, to let us let us in and do our thing there.

And, and when you. When you look at it, sort of in terms of so coldly, stepping back and looking at it, uh, I can’t blame them. Right. And, and so how do we then as alcoholics, um, help them see our point of view? Yeah. And we’re, we’re lucky with new beginners because we we’ve. Been there for several years now and, and have a great rapport I think, with, with the churches.

Ted S

And I think that’s important to me because as a landlord tenant kind of relationship, you know, that we, uh, we get involved with them versus just being a customer.

John G

You know, it’s like everything else. If you’re going and use someone’s property and don’t clean up. Uh, they’re not going to be so happy, but we make a point of, of cleaning up after each meeting,

Ted S

 I guess, in your days, clean up doesn’t seems to me like it wasn’t an issue. It seems to me like everybody would pitch in, right?

John G

 Well, yeah, you had no, there wasn’t, it didn’t have to ask for help. I think that’s the great thing today too, is that, you know, you look at the difference today, uh, in a lot of things, there’s one of them, you know, people leave two minutes after the meeting they’re gone immediately.

Uh, in the old days, I got to say that in the old days, when I first came in, we would go for coffee after, six eight of us. And we’d be probably in the coffee shop for two hours. Yes. A meeting after the meeting, you didn’t get home until midnight type of thing, but you were higher than a kite.

Wow, maybe this is what it’s all about in the sense that not only do you have the fellowship, but you have the old timers that are sitting there, like George A, who was the fellow. I was talking about it who spoke about honesty. Uh, he would join us, and we were just listening to George talk.

Ted S

 If you remember Reg C who was in the program that passed away a few years ago. He took me under his wing, and just like what you just talked about. You know, we would go to Homer’s for coffee and cake and that.  How could I ever forget what it was like with him?

John G

 Reg was one of those classic people in the program who basically said. If you don’t want it, we’ll give it to you. We’ll help. You don’t want it. Too Bad

Ted S

I was so lucky to have him mentor me in those early years. And, and I see that in you, John, you know, like again, in a meeting, you won’t leave a meeting until you talk to newcomer and then there’s no way he is getting away from you, right? Oh, you know, one of the reasons I love having you as my sponsor to you lead by example, don’t fool around with it.

John G

Put it this way. I I’ve, I’ve learned over the years that, uh, the steps are for me and I, I, I make no bones about it. I’ve done the steps my way and your day, you’ve done them your way. And everybody, I hope does them their own way. As long as they do them. And there is no right way. I’m sorry. There is no right way.

And there is no wrong way to do the steps. Just do them. Yeah. And, and when I found out that I was living or trying to live by the, by the steps and, and, and in my daily affairs, I found I was okay, the moment I stepped outside of that. That whole concept of, of living with the steps. It was like, I shouldn’t have said that to somebody, or I shouldn’t have done that, or I shouldn’t have got angry and, and, and yet, you know, the steps are there and they’re there for a reason, but I complicate them every day.

And the sad part of it is, is that the steps are so simple. Really when you look at the words, you know, and then, then you, you, you, you look at how it works at rarely. We seen a person fail who was thoroughly followed our path. Well, sir, my idea of thoroughly and yours are different and that’s okay.

That’s okay. If we stick around the program and, and, uh, you know, if it takes four years to figure out that the steps are for you. That’s okay. If it takes you four meetings, that’s even better, but it’s okay for sure. It doesn’t matter. You know, I, I, I get saddened though today because you hear young people coming in, they come out of a recovery program. So, I’ve done the steps. And I just shake my head. Like we know what are you living them?

Ted S

 And that’s, that was me 25 years ago. I just came out of treatment. I said exactly what you just said. I know it all now.

I want to go to something that I have observed over the years, especially at your cakes, you have a little memory bag, and those of you who don’t know, John, I will explain John has a little memory bag and that little bag he brings to each one of his cakes and he takes it out and he puts it on the table.

And that little bag has a, the original meeting list, if I’m correct of his original meeting.  It has all of that. First month, 2, 3, 4 months coins that my chips, chips and, uh, and so on. And he, you know, you know, a lot of us, we try to keep that stuff and a lot of us will put it in the drawer after a while, and will forget where it is and so on, but not John. John, he will open it up and you’ll pass it along for all of us to see at the meeting. So, tell me why is that? What is there that, you know what you never want to forget, obviously, because you still have it. You still share it.

John G

One of the great lessons that I’ve learned is remembering. Yes. And that’s to me, one of the great slogans, uh, that we come up with and I must never, never forget. So, I must remember when I was lying on the floor in my last drunk, begging God for help. And I must remember that I’ve gone through and when, just about emotionally killed a wife and two kids, I must never forget that. So, I must remember my first meeting. I must remember when that change in me started. I must remember the people that helped me because I didn’t do this alone. You know, I had eight people to start with and then I still have people around north America now.

It’s it’s, you know, when, when you look at your, your life, In the program and you look at your life beforehand, it’s different worlds now. I mean, I’m traveling, and I’ve done things with my new wife and, and, and things that I couldn’t have dreamt, and she couldn’t have dreamt before.  And, and, and so I have all these things that I keep as remembrances of where I was and what I was.

Ted S

And what I was, what a great lesson for, for all of us say to, you know, when we get our coins and how to save them. I mean, they don’t come easy duty.

John G

Well, it’s as I mentioned earlier, you know, that first week took a year and, then I got one year coin and I still have that as, you know, my five-year coin.

I still have that.  And, and I hit all those little chips that I got made in those days were poker chips. When I broke one, I thought I was going to drink. I, I, I was so afraid

Ted S

Where they colorful, like they are today?

John G

Yeah, but it it’s it’s, you know, like over the years, You, you look at my travels in AA and I went from Montreal to Toronto and then, uh, we moved to, BC and all those things. I mean, I ended up, I didn’t, I, I went to the, the Friday night  Podium meeting. And in those days, it was upstairs. I’m not sure. It’s right. I remember that as well. And they, they would have a hundred people. Yeah. Yes, so it was, chock a block. You couldn’t hear a person speak to save their life because everybody was talking and I thought, this is, this is not for me. And I ended up, my sponsor came up from, out from, from Toronto and, uh, he had a place down at the Glen in Washington, and we went down to look at that. And, uh, he said there’s a meeting Sunday night Washington, why don’t we take that in while we’re here, which we did.

And to make a long story short, Everson became my home. For almost eight, nine years.  And there’s a Friday night again and, and, uh, it was, it was part of just, uh, it was a ritual.

It was just, you left the office Friday night, and you went down to Everson and, and, um, uh, you know, when the meeting was over, you came home

Ted S

 Did Noreen go with you.?

John G

No, cause I was, I was literally driving from Vancouver, to Everson right from work. Yeah. So, it, it became my home group for years and until 911

Ted S

And that’s where it interrupted your, your group in the, across the board. Oh yeah. I didn’t know that.

John G

Yeah. So, when nine 11 hit, uh, you know, it took me longer to cross the border, but by the time I crossed the border, the meeting was over. So I, I started to look around in Chilliwack cause you’ve got to find something and I found the Friday, Friday grapevine.  And talk about Reg.  Right at the beginning, there was Reggie and myself. Yes. I remember I’m trying to think the other fellow, Randy, Randy, and, and one other gal. Yes. And, uh, that was. You know, and then that meeting became 90 plus.

Ted S

 And I was like, I remember joining it. I joined it that you were there.

John G

That’s where, where we, before we hooked up again, you know, um, uh, not only good friends, what, it, it, it, it was a sponsor sponsy type of thing. Yes, absolutely. And it was, that was, again, another group that I don’t know what we’re doing right with her because of. Oh, it grew so fast. Yeah.

Ted S

 I remember, you know, like opening it up and trying to set it up sometimes at times, but you were always there, and everybody seemed to take a turn, right?

John G

Well, um, one of the things that I insisted on and I, and I learned this at my first group, because I’m terrible with names. And I said, would you mind if I just go stood at the door when people came in and I just shake their hand and greet them and say, welcome. Well, and I still do the same thing at my home group, I still do that.

Ted S

Same thing I do the same thing at my home group Primary Purpose

John G

 I think that that’s probably one of the most important things we can do, especially if they’re new, especially. Yeah. And shake their hand and smile and say c’mon, and coffee’s over here and sit down and relax.

Ted S

Let’s talk about something that you’ve always shared with me.

 I was struggling, I remember I’d be on the road or, or there were issues at home, you know, whatever, you always sent me to step three, step three, step three.  I know, in the last few years, that your health hasn’t been the best.  And I know that, I know it’s been tough on you and, and I know it’s been tough on Noreen because Noreen’s health hasn’t been the best either.

Now also tell me about step three. How, how, how it saves you, because I know you’ve told me it literally saves you on days when you think, uh, it’s all going to fall apart

John G

 Well, you go back right back to the beginning. When I came off the floor, you know, and I said, God help me you know, and I meant it for the first time. You know?  And then you find out that you, when you look at the steps and I, and I, I I’ve always felt this. And again, this is my own opinion. And I think if you can do the first three steps, the rest is a piece of cake.  Okay. And you know, you’re talking about honesty and everything else, but the bottom line is, is that somewhere along the line, God came into my life and, Yeah, I think this time I want you to be there. And, and when you come to the steps and you come to life, the whole concept of, uh, dealing with, with life on life’s terms daily, the only problem I ever had was me and saying, okay, whatever happens, God, you know, help me And I made no bones about that with, with everybody and everybody, even my other sponsees and stuff, come to me, John, and say, oh, I’m having trouble with this and everything else.

And the step three and they got tired of it. And then, then the joy of it though, is when I’m sitting there complaining and moaning and they just look at me right in the face and say, step three, John. I says to you, and. And that’s the beauty of it, That’s the beauty of it is that it’s there for everybody every time

Ted S

and step three in my view, anyway, yes, it’s certainly strengthening our faith. Doesn’t it? Because of the effects it has on us, when we truly, truly practice.

John G

Yeah. One of the joys, if you think back to when we first started being sponsor sponsee, uh, we went out for dinner.  And we had a marvelous time. And we spent probably, let’s say 80% of that talking about God. Who would have thought?

Who would have thought, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing. And, you know, I know you go to church, and I don’t, and that’s the joy of it is that we can still talk about God and be very comfortable for both of us to do that.  You know, we don’t have to push anything on anybody And, and it’s, I think that’s the great thing of the, of the program is that. You don’t shove it in anybody’s throat. You know what I mean? It’s just these therapeutic areas you want it, or you don’t.

Ted S

 I put something on our website that we just put together.  Bill gives a quote and he talks about, you know, its right there. If you want it, just take it.

Yeah. If you don’t want to take it, we are not going to force it on you. I know that’s how you practice your program

John G

I don’t know whether I lead by example about anything in the sense I just tried to do. I think what the steps, tell me the way I I’ve worked them.

Okay. And, and what happened for me to me, you know, I, with the newcomer, especially because they took me under their wing when I first came in and I mean, I mean, big time and I became like the little baby of that group. And they, they looked after me and, and it was like, I try and do that. Same thing with the newcomers today is that they must know that there’s somebody there that cares for them.

Ted S

And it all starts at the door huh

John G

Well, that’s yeah, that’s the beginning. And, and it saddens me though, as soon as the meeting is finished, poof everybody is gone. And the old days there was no poof. Everybody stuck around.

Ted s

We still have quite a few meetings in the district where people stick around.

John G

Yeah. But it’s getting less and less, but it’s not, it’s not like it was. And, and I think if you look at just society in general, uh, you know, we used to love to go out for dinner and spend two or three hours. You had to get dressed. You know, he had to wear a tie and shoes and everything else. Uh, and we’ve gone from that to McDonald’s. If you follow me, here’s your order, you know, get lost.

Ted S

 Yeah. In the early days did people get dressed a lot?

John G

 Some did,

Ted S

I see photos for example of Bill and Dr bob wearing suits at meetings and some meetings where everyone wore suits

John G

 Yeah, well, I did, uh, it was, you know, I wore suit to a meeting for a long time. Because again, I thought that’s what we should do.

I thought everyone should. But not everybody did. You know, and then if you look on later on and they’re just jeans and a shirt jeans, but the important thing was you were there. It really, it didn’t matter what you wore, but it was, it was today to see somebody in a suit, in a meeting it’s like, you’re either going to a wedding or a funeral at the same time.

Ted S

John, what an interesting conversation we just had.  Chilliwack AA is blessed to have you as its first guests on its first podcast. And to me here, I cannot thank you enough. Thank you for being my friend. Thank you for sponsoring me, mentoring me, and, for anybody that knows John don’t hesitate to chat with him

You know, the guy cannot wait to talk to you, Keep doing what you’re doing, my friend. AA little, is so much stronger for having you here, especially in Chilliwack.

John G

 You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.

Ted S

Well, my friends that is it for this episode of Chilliwack AA podcast. I want to thank my guest John G for sharing his story and thank you for tuning in. This podcast can also be heard on Spotify, Anchor, Amazon Music, Google play and sound Cloud. Or visit our website at www.chilliwackaa.org. Listen to every interview, share your thoughts and comment on our website. Sign up on our website and receive notifications the minute a new podcast is posted. By the way this podcast strictly adheres to AAs 12 traditions and all general service guidelines for safeguarding anonymity online. If you want more information about AA go to www.aa.org.

The next episode of Chilliwack Aa podcast is coming soon. Please keep coming back.